"This Isn't American Idol, We're
Choosing the President of the United States" - Kucinich on
Corporate Media Campaign Coverage
Democracy Now!
Wednesday, March 28th, 2007
Amy Goodman
Listen to the interview
here.
Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D - OH) was one of eight Congressmembers
to vote against the House war-spending bill last week that set a
timetable for the withdrawal of troops from Iraq. We go to
Capitol Hill to speak with Kucinich about the bill, why he
thinks impeachment "should be on the table," the corporate
media's coverage of the race for the Democratic presidential
nomination and more. [rush transcript included]
On Capitol Hill the Democratic-led Senate has moved closer to
passing a war-spending bill that will give President Bush $100
billion more for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and also
require U.S. combat troops to begin withdrawing from Iraq.
On Tuesday Republican lawmakers attempted to
pass an amendment removing the troop withdrawal plan from the
bill. But the amendment was defeated by a 50 to 48 vote after
Republican Senator Chuck Hagel of Nebraska voted with the
Democrats on the measure.
President Bush has vowed to veto the
legislation if it includes a timetable for withdrawal.
Meanwhile, anti-war activists continue to pressure lawmakers to
reject the bill as well because it allows for the war to
continue for another year.
In Burlington Vermont, police arrested eight
protesters yesterday after they refused to leave the offices of
independent Sen. Bernie Sanders. Sanders has been a long-time
opponent of the war but supports the spending bill.
Sanders said it would be counterproductive to
vote against the spending bill. He said, "That would mean voting
with the Bush Administration and congressional Republicans and
handing a victory to those who want to continue and perhaps
expand the war into neighboring countries."
Last week eight anti-war Democrats voted
against the supplemental spending bill when it came before the
House. One of those lawmakers, Congressman Dennis Kucinich of
Ohio, joins us from Capitol Hill. Congressman Kucinich is also
running for the Democratic presidential nomination.
- Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D - OH)
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AMY GOODMAN: Last
week, eight anti-war Democrats voted against the supplemental
spending bill when it came before the house. One of those
lawmakers, Congress member Dennis Kucinich of Ohio, joins us
from Capitol Hill. Congress member Kucinich is also running for
the Democratic Presidential nomination. We welcome you to
Democracy Now!, Congressman Kucinich.
REP. DENNIS KUCINICH:
Good morning Amy.
AMY GOODMAN: Good
to have you with us. First of all, as you stand overlooking the
capitol, talk about your vote against the war funding bill.
REP. DENNIS KUCINICH:
Well, we were given false choices. We were told
that we either buy into president Bush's plan, which is keep the
war going indefinitely, or accept the Democratic version of the
war in Iraq, which would keep the war going for another year or
two. I say those choices weren't sufficient.
The Democrats could have refused to send a
bill forward. We didn't have to fund this war. We're not under
any obligation to keep the war going. And yet our leaders took
another path. Furthermore, Amy, you may be interested to know
that the 2008 budget, which is before Congress today and will be
voted on tomorrow, contains another $145 billion for the war,
and on top of that, they're putting another $50 billion for the
war in fiscal year 2009.
So this talk about ending the war by March or
by September belies the fact that the budget has money in it to
keep the war going into 2009. And I think that's wrong. I think
the American people will reject that type of thinking, and I’m
standing strong to say get out now. I put forth a plan embodied
in HR 1234. To accomplish just that.
AMY GOODMAN: But
what do you say to those make the argument that if president
Bush has on his desk a bill that gives money, gives a fortune in
continuing the war, and he has to veto it because he doesn't
like the timetable, that this puts him in a very difficult
position?
REP. DENNIS KUCINICH:
Our decisions have to be way above politics. We
have the lives of our troops at stake here. There's no military
victory in Iraq. We're there illegally. The occupation is
fueling the insurgency. Democrats can still, after president
Bush vetoes the bill, which he will, Democrats can still take
the right position, which is refuse to fund the war, use money
in the pipeline to bring the troops home.
AMY GOODMAN: What
about the pressure from the leadership, the Democratic Party,
from the House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, all of the stories going
around of Congress members voting for the funding so that they
could help out the spinach farmers, etc.?
REP. DENNIS KUCINICH:
On matters of war and peace, I think people have
to vote their conscience. I can say I wasn't pressured.
AMY GOODMAN: But
what about those that were, and what about the spending bill
going way beyond funding wars?
REP. DENNIS KUCINICH:
It's a legitimate concern. I mean, if you're for
peace, you vote for peace. If you're for peace, you don't vote
for war because somebody's giving you a plum in a bill that's
designed to keep a war going. I think the American people want
new leadership which understands that if you're for peace, you
vote for peace, you don't fund wars.
And so I’m moving forward with a plan, it's
embodied in HR 1234 that would stop the funding and the
occupation, close the bases, bring the troops home, and set in
motion a parallel process that would stabilize Iraq with the
help of the international community, which will only help, by
the way, unless, you know, if the United States takes a new
course and ends the occupation.
So my plan envisions that America will take a
new direction. What's happening right now, Amy, is we're looking
in this budget, and people, and Democrats that look at this
budget today are going to be surprised to find out that our
leaders are proposing keeping the war going into 2009.
AMY GOODMAN: Let
me play a clip of you, of House Speaker -- for you, of House
Speaker Nancy Pelosi pushing for the passage of the supplemental
spending bill. This was her comment after the bill passed.
HOUSE SPEAKER NANCY PELOSI:
Proudly this new Congress voted to bring an
end to the war in Iraq. It took one great, giant step in
that direction. We voted “NO” to giving a blank check to an
open-ended commitment, a war without end, to the President
of the United States, and “Yes” to begin the end of the war
and the redeployment of our troops.
AMY GOODMAN: I
then want to play for you a clip of President Bush. President
Bush's comment after the House passed the spending bill last
week.
PRESIDENT BUSH:
This bill has too much pork, too many conditions, and an
artificial timetable for withdrawal. As I made clear for
weeks, I will veto if it comes to my desk. And because the
vote in the House was so close, it is clear that my veto
would be sustained. Today's action in the House does only
one thing, it delays the delivery of vital resources for our
troops.
AMY GOODMAN:
Congress member Dennis Kucinich, your response.
REP. DENNIS KUCINICH:
Well, the Democrats' position should have been
and can still be, that we refuse to fund the war, that we don't
give this president a dime to keep the war going, that we use
money in the pipeline to bring the troops home and set in motion
a parallel process that would secure Iraq. We're under no
obligation to keep this war going.
But I would say, Amy, that if you look at the
budget, which is facing Congress tomorrow, it provides not only
$145 billion for fiscal year ‘08 for the war, for all of it, but
another $50 billion for fiscal year 2009. I wonder how that
squares with Democratic leaders' position that they want to
bring the troops home in March or in September of next year.
There's something that's contradictory here.
So I’m going to try to see if I can reconcile
that today in Congress by talking to leadership and alerting my
fellow members that money is in the budget to keep this war
going past President Bush's term. President Bush has been very
clear. He's going to keep this war going through the end of his
term. I say that American should get out now, that it's not a
choice between President Bush or keeping the war going another
year, year and a half. We need to get out now, and we need to
let the troops know we truly support them, by bringing them
home.
AMY GOODMAN:
Congressman Kucinich, what would getting out now look like? I
mean, do you mean, for example, today, you begin the process,
and when would the soldiers be home if -- well, if you were
president, Dennis Kucinich?
REP. DENNIS KUCINICH:
I crafted my plan with the help of the people at
the UN, and I will tell you that they say that it would take
about two months, three months to mobilize a sufficient force
that would replace US Troops leaving. So I say two to three
months we could have troops home and have an international force
that would help stabilize Iraq. But the international community
will not become involved as long as the United States intends to
occupy Iraq and keep bases open. So we need to take a new
direction.
My plan would be as follows: to put in place
the provisions of HR 1234, which ends the occupation,
closes the bases, sets in motion a plan to bring the troops
home, bring in international peacekeepers, and stop the
privatization of Iraq oil. One of the things in the bill that
passed the House was a demand that the Iraq government pass a
hydrocarbon act which sets the stage for broad privatization of
trillions of dollars of Iraqi oil interests.
Now, think about it. If Democrats had told the
American people last October that if you vote democrat in
November, we'll not only give you enough money to keep the war
going through the end of President Bush's term, but we'll also
privatize the oil of Iraq and then help the US oil companies win
the prize that I think the war was all about from the very
beginning. I don't think the people would have voted Democrat.
So Democrats have to keep faith with the American people.
My plan would do that, by returning full
control of the Iraqi oil assets to the Iraqi people. Put in
motion a plan for reconciliation between Shiites, Sunnis, and
Kurds, which cannot happen as long as the United States
occupies. Provide for honest reconstruction, you know, none of
these contractors from the US can be there. They've stolen money
from the Iraqi people and also from the US taxpayers.
We have to give the Iraqi people jobs with
Iraqi contractors doing the work. We have to provide for
reparations so that we can pay money to the Iraqi people who
have lost their homes or lost the lives of loved ones. We have
to stabilize energy and food prices. And when Iraq goes to the
international community, make sure that Iraq doesn't suffer from
the structural readjustment provisions of the IMF or the
World Bank.
AMY GOODMAN: Your
response, Congress member Kucinich to Halliburton saying they're
moving to Dubai?
REP. DENNIS KUCINICH:
Well, I think the honest thing would be to have a
good Attorney General call Halliburton in and start the
questioning of them about their conduct, and I think that they
should not be immune from prosecution simply because they're
moving to Dubai.
AMY GOODMAN: We
continue with Dennis Kucinich from Ohio, Democratic Presidential
hopeful. He is standing right outside the Capitol right now. You
mentioned Attorney General Alberto Gonzales. What do you think
should happen to him?
REP. DENNIS KUCINICH:
It's very clear that the Justice Department has
become so politicized that it cannot function in the interests
of the American people. The honorable thing would be for Mr.
Gonzales to resign.
AMY GOODMAN: And
if he doesn't resign, should he be fired? Should the President
fire him?
REP. DENNIS KUCINICH:
Well, I don't think that's going to happen. I
think he's doing what the President has asked him to do. The
question here is what's his sense of honor about his
responsibility to the law and to the American people. That's
going to be his decision.
AMY GOODMAN:
Speaking of the President, what do you think should happen to
President Bush? Nancy Pelosi, the House Speaker, said that
impeachment is off the table. What are your thoughts?
REP. DENNIS KUCINICH:
I don't think that it's wise for the House and
the Congress, for co-equal branches of government, to
essentially give the President carte blanche in his decision
making by saying no matter what you do, impeachment is off the
table. I think that impeachment has to be on the table, and I
also think that it's time to have a national conversation in
cities, in towns all over America about the appropriate conduct
for a President and a Vice President, about whether it's right
for a President and Vice President to lie to the American people
and take us into war. About the erosion of civil rights in
America and how that's come about as a result of this
administration's conduct of the war.
I think that it's time to have that kind of a
discussion, and I’ve urged that from my website at kucinich.us,
and I’m asking to hear from people about what they think, and I
think that we need to make sure that this President understands
that he can't do whatever he wants, that he is bound by the
constitution, that he is bound by national and international
law.
AMY GOODMAN:
Congressman Kucinich, you've mentioned the word treason. What do
you mean?
REP. DENNIS KUCINICH:
I don't think I mentioned the word treason.
AMY GOODMAN: Have
you talked about President Bush and treason?
REP. DENNIS KUCINICH:
No, I’ve never -- I never mentioned the word
treason. I do think that accountability is a key word here. And
I think the President and the Vice President must be held
accountable. That's why I think it's a mistake for anyone to say
impeachment is off the table. At the same time, we have to take
a responsibility as members of Congress to uphold the
constitution of the United States. That's our obligation as a
co-equal branch of government.
So I’m waiting to hear from the American
people. I would ask people who are listening or watching to go
to my website at:
www.kucinich.us. I'd like to hear from you. What do you
think? Should the House move forward with a resolution of
impeachment and what do you think the dimensions of it should
be? I want to hear from the American people on this.
AMY GOODMAN: What
do you think of the Center for Constitutional Rights
going to Germany to file a complaint against former Congress
member -- or rather, former Secretary of Defense, Donald
Rumsfeld? It's not only against him, it's against Alberto
Gonzales, it's against General Sanchez and Miller for torture,
over the issue of torture.
REP. DENNIS KUCINICH:
I think that all members of this administration,
including the President, the Vice President, and all the other
officials you mentioned, should be held accountable under
international law, and that that accountability does not expire
with the expiration of the term of this President. America at
some point is going to have to restore its moral equilibrium,
which has been lost, because this administration took us into a
war based on lies. They all have to be held accountable. They
must be held accountable, not only under national, but
international law.
AMY GOODMAN: When
you came to the National Conference for Media Reform in Memphis,
you talked about holding hearings around the FCC, heading up a
committee that is responsible for the FCC, I think it's the
Domestic Policy Subcommittee the House Oversight on Government
Reform Committee. What do you plan to do?
REP. DENNIS KUCINICH:
Well, our committee just started its work last
week. The Domestic Policy Subcommittee has jurisdiction over the
Federal Communications Commission. It's been 20 years since
we’ve had and hearings at all on the Fairness Doctrine.
It’s been a long time since Congress has held hearings on the
concentration in the electronic media.
And so I want to proceed with hearings
sometime in the next few months that would review the -- those
animating principles of the FCC embodied in the Federal
Communications Act of 1934, and that is that the electronic
media shall serve in the public interest, convenience, and
necessity. I want to hold that up and see if today's conditions
corresponds to what it was that gave the public the inclination
to cause electronic media to be licensed and if the licensees
have kept faith with the American people.
AMY GOODMAN:
Congress member Kucinich, you also just returned from New York,
where you held a news conference on universal healthcare. How
does your plan differ from, for example, Hillary Rodham Clinton,
the New York Senator, also Democratic hopeful – Presidential
hopeful, also said she supports universal healthcare.
REP. DENNIS KUCINICH:
Well, it differs in every way. Everyone in this
campaign is for universal healthcare. But what Senator Clinton,
Senator Edwards, and others are talking about is having the
insurance companies still in charge of healthcare, of having the
government subsidize the insurance companies or forcing people
to buy insurance or have the government subsidize the purchase
of insurance.
Look, the President of the United States
shouldn't be an insurance salesman. The President should stand
for a position where everyone is covered, that's what my bill
does. The Conyers-Kucinich Bill, HR 676, Medicare for
all, it ends for-profit medicine, it is a single-payer system
which recognizes we're spending $2.2 trillion a year on
healthcare, but 31% of that, or $660 billion, goes for the
activities of the for-profit system.
Take that money, put it into healthcare, and
you have enough money to cover every medical need, including
dental care, vision care, mental health, prescription drug, and
long-term care. Healthcare is a right, it's not a privilege.
Senator Clinton's plan helps the insurance companies, it keeps
the for-profit system going, and my plan ends the for-profit
system and uses the savings to provide healthcare for everyone.
AMY GOODMAN: What
do you think of the media coverage of the Democratic
Presidential race right now? A lot of attention on both Barack
Obama and Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, Senator Obama and
Clinton. Of course, last time you also ran for president, and
there was a major issue the day after you took Ted Koppel to
task at ABC for asking questions about polls and money as
opposed to issues on your positions. The next day, the so-called
embedded reporter in your campaign was pulled, the ABC reporter.
What about the coverage now?
REP. DENNIS KUCINICH:
My concern wasn't so much whether reporters were
embedded in my campaign, as much as it was the fact that
mainstream media reports were embedded with the war. But as far
as my own campaign, look, I’m bringing issues forth to the
American people. We're organizing in places like New Hampshire,
where the Democratic Party just came out in favor of
single-payer healthcare, not for profit. My campaign is about
organizing door-to-door and grass roots fundraising, and people
who want to get involved can go to kucinich.us and help us.
I'm not going to be on my knees begging for
attention from the mainstream media. They have to realize that
they have a responsibility as broadcast licensees to provide
coverage to all the candidates. After all, this isn't "American
idol", we're choosing a President of the United States. The
American people have a right to a substantive discussion about
those issues that affect their lives, such as war and peace,
such as poverty and prosperity, healthcare for all, or keep the
insurance companies in business in healthcare.
We need a new discussion, and I appreciate the
chance to be on Democracy Now!, because I know your
audience is an audience of people with principle, of activism,
and I’m confident that when they hear what I stand for, they'll
be interested in joining this campaign.
AMY GOODMAN:
Finally, President Kucin -- finally, Congress member Kucinich,
the men and women who have gone AWOL, there have been thousands
of them, some are being court-martialed, like Lieutenant Aaron
Witada will be court-martialed again. It was a mistrial in his
first trial, first Officer to say no to war, to deployment to
Iraq. What do you think should happen to these men? Augustine
Aguayo, an Army medic who applied for CO status, didn't get it,
and is now in prison in Germany. Do you support their saying
“no”? Do you support their refusing to go to Iraq or redeploy to
Iraq?
REP. DENNIS KUCINICH:
I support the troops who serve and also those who
don't feel it's right to serve. I think we have to ask our
troops to be able to reserve the right of their conscience, and
if they feel it's the right thing to go forward, then we support
that. If they feel it's not the right thing, we should support
that, too. I think we're in a point in the history of this
country where many people have looked at the war and realized
that it's wrong. Some of those people are soldiers. Soldiers are
put in an impossible situation, not only those who are committed
to serving in Iraq, but also those who know that the war is
wrong and who question the war. I think we have to love our
troops, whatever situation they find themselves in. And the way
to support them is to bring them home.
AMY GOODMAN: Do
you think they should be court-martialed?
REP. DENNIS KUCINICH:
You know, I don't think that anyone who's taken a
principles and conscientious position should be subject to a
court-martial. They should be permitted to leave the service if
they so desire, but not be forced through that kind of a
process. I think, you know, there has to be an underlying truth
here, and the underlying truth is the war was wrong, period. The
war is based on lies. We should support our troops by bringing
them home, and we should support those who have challenged the
war by giving them a chance to leave honorably.
AMY GOODMAN:
Congress member Kucinich, I want to thank you for joining us
from the Capitol. Ohio Congress member and Democratic
Presidential hopeful.
REP. DENNIS KUCINICH:
Thank you Amy.
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